Swartz safety is a deal breaker for me. Had a Raptor and it shot great but it had to go down the road.

 

Kimber rented space in everyone's mind with mass marketing in every gun magazine on the planet. Along with the fact they mass produced and were on the shelf in every gun store around. This leads to quantity over quality. There's really no way around it when you're dealing with man made products.

 

Colt mass produces though, right? No arguing mass produced versus low production/higher quality.

 

Choke yourself. You can't bring Colt and Kimber together in the same thread. :roflmaro:

 

Your money is better spent on a DW over a Kimber. Kimbers are made of pretty low quality small parts the frame and slides are fine and they generally shoot well. The Swartz is another downfall as well as is the 1 year warranty, the use of plastic MSH and kimpro finish is laughable in wear resistance. All cost cutting measures yet they spend millions on advertising. Kimber resale Value is also pretty poor due to mass production and reputation.

 

Your money is better spent on a DW over a Kimber.

Would that make DW "only" a step above a Kimber? "Dang it Dale" I just bought this DW A2

 

I've owned a Kimber Stainless Custom II and an Aegis Elite Custom in 45 ACP. Both guns performed just fine for me.

Internet forums tend to be echo chambers. People parrot what they hear and sometimes exaggerate and over generalize. The bad things you hear about Kimber are mostly exaggerations, just as are some of the amazing things you hear about some of the semi-custom builders :jawdrop:

 

I've owned a Kimber Stainless Custom II and an Aegis Elite Custom in 45 ACP. Both guns performed just fine for me.

Internet forums tend to be echo chambers. People parrot what they hear and sometimes exaggerate and over generalize. The bad things you hear about Kimber are mostly exaggerations, just as are some of the amazing things you hear about some of the semi-custom builders :jawdrop:

Personal experience including LE that had problems combined with Kimber's "not our fault" attitude gets negative comments from me everytime the name comes up.

 

Aggreed^^^^^

I’d maybe take an early Custom pre Swartz gun.
But then there is that awful rear sight:dummy:

 

But then there is that awful rear sight:dummy:

100% agree with this statement.

The entire "my gun is a tool" argument is hard to support if you're a 1911 fan. I think a strong case can be made that many of us are drawn to 1911s because of their aesthetic appeal. Otherwise, buy a Glock :dead:.

Kimber's oxide finish (that reminds me of the finish Remington sprays on their 870 Express) and grotesque rear sight is very off putting for me.

Granted, 1911s are available from mild to wild ... but ugly is ugly.

 

I’ve had a few that were fine 1911’s, the full size was an absolute tackdriver. No need for all the hate really, although some also don’t like their custom shop label on some models, which is pure marketing since they closed their custom shop in the 90’s

 

Excellent point on the "Custom Shop" jazz.

They market like beasts. I'll give 'em that. Marketing game is strong.

 

Their rude folks with customer service are one of the main reasons that I refuse to spend another dollar with them. Had a bad series of experiences....they were perfectly fine with leaving me hanging. Fukk'em. Got rid of the piece of shyt (good looking piece of shyt, though......extremely well marketed good looking piece of shyt).

They could have taken the gun I had....polished it up nice, neat & shiny and then shoved it up their arses. Plastic parts and all.

Now....I'm a sample size of one guy....with one shytty experience. Their rude dickheadedness was enough to turn me away for good. Irrational response on my part....perhaps.....but they pissed me off royally. They were perfectly happy with that, too.

Not another dollar outa my hard-earned fun money. Bitches can kiss my arse.

This was a while back.

Their current management and staffing may be much improved and on par with other gun companies. I wouldn't know.

They made a good looking gun...but appearance was where the goodness ended with my Kimber experience.


Their guns still look good today. Their marketing draws in a pile of non-typical 1911 customers. If my gun had worked half as slick as their magazine adds.....bow howdy, I'd have been onto something great.






My Springfields have been hit or miss on the triggers....but at least they are pleasant to deal with and don't quibble over getting things right for you.

So far, so good with the Dan Wesson line. Each one I've bought has been super. The internals work and feel excellent. Triggers, sights, fitment and finishing are perfect. Break-ins are going the way one could expect for a gun made with close tolerances and no slop.

 

Their rude folks with customer service are one of the main reasons that I refuse to spend another dollar with them. Had a bad series of experiences....they were perfectly fine with leaving me hanging. Fukk'em. Got rid of the piece of shyt (good looking piece of shyt, though......extremely well marketed good looking piece of shyt).

They could have taken the gun I had....polished it up nice, neat & shiny and then shoved it up their arses. Plastic parts and all.

Now....I'm a sample size of one guy....with one shytty experience. Their rude dickheadedness was enough to turn me away for good. Irrational response on my part....perhaps.....but they pissed me off royally. They were perfectly happy with that, too.

Not another dollar outa my hard-earned fun money. Bitches can kiss my arse.

This was a while back.

Their current management and staffing may be much improved and on par with other gun companies. I wouldn't know.

They made a good looking gun...but appearance was where the goodness ended with my Kimber experience.


Their guns still look good today. Their marketing draws in a pile of non-typical 1911 customers. If my gun had worked half as slick as their magazine adds.....bow howdy, I'd have been onto something great.





My Springfields have been hit or miss on the triggers....but at least they are pleasant to deal with and don't quibble over getting things right for you.

So far, so good with the Dan Wesson line. Each one I've bought has been super. The internals work and feel excellent. Triggers, sights, fitment and finishing are perfect. Break-ins are going the way one could expect for a gun made with close tolerances and no slop.

Thx for the info, I was looking at an ultra raptor but think I will save some more and get the Dan Wesson

 

I’m a Kimber fan, but haven’t bought one in a long long time.
I’ve never had any problems with mine, but these days if I were in the market for a 1911 in that price range, it would be a DW.

 

Agreed.

Started with an early stainless pro carry 25 years ago. Sold it in favor of an Eclipse. It is a “II” so not a Series 70.

It was my favorite handgun for years. Laser accurate and I could shoot it better than my Sig 229 .40 standard issue service gun.

About the same time somebody at my LGS once told me he’d never trust them as a service gun b/c of inferior small parts. He had no first hand experience but heard about issues. I discounted it as hearsay and bought a “Limited Edition Custom Shop” Shadow Ultra Carry. Shot it well too.

I’ve never had an issue with the Ultra even though 1911 reliability is also questionable in compact guns.

But then one day I was at the range with the Eclipse and went to flip the safety and the lever wasn’t there. The recoil alone snapped it off right where it met the body. My intro to MIM and validation of what the guy at my LGS was talking about.

I bought an Ed Brown safety and fit it to the gun and I’ve never had another issue. That was 15 years and 1,000+ rounds ago.

After finding this forum last year I learned about Dan Wesson and bought my first one. The hand finishing and tool steel small parts resonated with me. I’ve since purchased 3 more. I do see that they are darn close to the semi-customs I have.

I too wondered about all the negativity around the Kimber. For a while I thought perhaps I should divest myself of those I have. Then I inherited a non-Swartz government Stainless Kimber and did another round of comparative analysis.

I have a new Sig 1911 WTP and the triggers on my Kimbers are hands down better.

Slide to frame fit is tighter than my Colt Competition.

Those 25 year old Kimbers are tight, smooth and accurate. I’m keeping them.

My 2 cents is that there isn’t anything wrong with Kimber, Sig, Ruger, S&W and comparative production guns.

Buy them if you like them. You get a lot for the money and IMHO you are 90% of the way to a semi-custom.

If you can afford another $500 OR if you are using it for EDC/self defense... then you may want at a least a Dan Wesson. That gets you maybe 95%.

If you can swing a semi or full custom you likely already have one. But that last 5% comes dear in price.

As famed Tucson rifle maker David Miller once told me... the difference in high end guns over production is kind of like beer vs fine wine. $1000 bottle of wine is wonderful... but there is nothing wrong with a good beer.

One man’s long-winded opinion.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Just bought a Pro Carry II off this forum as the price just seemed to good to pass up. Figure I'll run it hard and use it as a way to practice upgrading skills (Crown and Recess barrel, magwell, trigger job, etc.). Otherwise try to get better at wrenching on the 1911.

 

I am looking at higher end stuff for EDC and to collect, but for now I’m going to shoot the piss out of this thing until something breaks or falls off. I‘ll then transport the carcass to a 1911 expert and start upgrading it.

 

I jumped on the Kimber wagon when they released the first Classic (Classic first gen). My favorite gun shop (which at the time was one of the largest in the country) really pushed them. The owner carried a Para P13 that had been completely worked by someone. His son carried a Clark 1911. They sold every type of gun imaginable. I bought / traded A LOT back then, and they just hounded me to try one of those original Kimbers. At the time, the features offered on the Classic were pretty rare in the 1911 market. I bought a pair, and they worked for what I needed at the time.

As with most commodity guns they were eventually traded.

Since that time (IIRC 1996???) I've had a number of Kimbers. Pros, TLE, TLE2, Stainless Classic, Classic 2, Royal something or another.

The last (until recently) was one of their upper echelon guns. After about a 1000rds the slide stop notch rounded out of the slide. I sent it in, they replaced the slide. It made me question their products.

Years later I was in a local store and saw a two-tone (blue slide / stainless frame) for $599. I bought it in a moment of weakness but quickly recovered after taking it to the range the first time. It simply didn't shoot like my Baer, Wilson, etc. Sold it to a colleague for $500 about two years ago.

 

Kimbers like Rugers, Remingtons, etc are simply mass produced commodity guns.I also place Springfield (non-CS) and Colt in this category but above the others listed.

These are okay for someone wanting a sub-$1000 gun. There is a market for these.

However, many of us have graduated to higher end guns and the features they offer.

 

Ditto.

 

This applies to most products.

For example I would never buy a watch that cost more than about $50. However, I know several people with watches in excess of $10,000.

On the other hand, I prefer "semi-custom" 1911s while someone else might not see the value in spending 2x, 3x, or even 6x over the cost of a production gun.

I recently saw a dealer new Springfield "Defender" for $459. If it works, and has all the features you want ... why spend $2500 on a Baer, Brown, Wilson, NHC, GI, AC, etc?

I won't lavish hate on Kimber like I do on G(B)lock ... but ironically I no longer own a Kimber but do still have a Glock.

 

(yes, I know the other virtues of the 1911 which is why I've been carrying them for 3.5 decades)

 

I loved my first addition Kimber 1911s, should of never sold the three them.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

Pre-Swartz Classic 1? They were my first as well, and those were "good" production 1911s.

As someone else said ... they shifted market focus after these established their "brand".

 

I have a Kimber Pro Carry II. I was disappointed in it. Not a fan of the Swartz. I know that it is one of their mass produced guns, not that it was horrible but I expected more. For the same price, I should have chosen from a few other mass produced guns and been happier. I changed out the MSH, trigger and and did some polishing, to get rid of the gritty trigger pull. I'll keep it, but would need to be convinced to buy another one.
One thing I will say, their magazines are garbage. I swapped out the followers after I noticed that they were leaving a ding in the frame.

 

I must admit I have been tempted to buy a Kimber before due to the vast quantity of models and the availability in the Concentration camp of Kalifornia. But the wisdom of the Forum members told the little voice in my head, NO! End if story.

 

From a rather young age I was told from the good ole boys at the LGS that “friends don’t let friends buy Kimber”. Hard to overcome that kind of image

 

Kimber "fans" are like those guys that try to convince you their Bushmaster or Smith & Wesson AR is really "the same" as your LMT MRP or Knights SR-15.

No it is is not.

Their Bushmaster might be "good enough" for them, but after owning and using arguably superior products (like a Daniel Defense, LMT CQB/MRP, KAC SR-15, etc) ... it isn't "good enough" for me.

**I've owned Adams Arms, ArmaLite, BCM, Bushmaster, CMMG, Colt, DPMS, Eagle Arms, Essential Arms, LWRC, Olympic Arms, Noveske, Palmetto State Armory, POF, Rock River Arms, SGW, Sig Sauer, Smith & Wesson, Stag **

I'm actively trying to sell all of my BCMs, my last 3 Colts and all of the PSAs.

Keeping my Daniel Defense and LMT.

 

...same reason why you'll never find another Kimber in my collection. I'd rather spend $2000-2500 on one semi-custom than have 3-4 Kimbers.

Just like the couple of ARs I'm keeping. My LMT MWS was A LOT more money than many other AR-10s ... but ...

 

to someone else with different priorities and world view ... that PSA AR is more than enough for them ... and it leaves lots of money in their pocket for something they find more important or interesting.

NOTE: There is nothing wrong with BCM or Colt ARs ... I'm just selling mine because they're FSB and I've starting using magnified optics on everything. Magnification is helping as I age.

 

As noted earlier, resale on them suffers...which can make picking up the early ones a good value.

I have a 1997 Classic Royal and a 1998 Classic Gold Match Stainless. Good condition examples of each can be found around $700 used. No Swartz system, good enough internals for the money. Both were good shooters. Both have gotten trigger jobs that they honestly didn't need. My Gold Match currently has a SA magwell and will likely get a brass bead front sight for days when I want to shoot 45 in our local matches.

For perspective, I also have a Baer Premier II, a DW Valor, a STI Trojan, and a Colt Competition Plus. The Colt Competition Plus came to me recently for slightly more than the Kimbers, and the Valor for a several hundred more. Both have front strap checkering that my Kimbers lack. On fit and finish, the Valor is in another league and the Colt is more in line with my Kimbers. (The Colt has noticeably looser slide/frame/barrel fit than my Kimbers, if that matters.) There are even SA TRPs out there for similar money. Lots of good, used, production guns in that pricepoint.

I'm not sure I'd call my Kimbers inferior against the Colt and Valor. (Against my Baer, sure.) They're not life changing, and certainly not heirloom collectibles, but adequate for what they are. If I shot them as much as I dream, perhaps I'd expose some weakness. I bought them at market price and they are still good values at that. Some of my coworkers think a Kimber is the best 1911 made. Perhaps that's why they're heavily shunned in the Addicts crowd...with more seasoned tastes.

Edit: I agree the rear fixed sight is ugly. My Royal happened to come with a trijicon that is more Novak in profile.

 

Mmmm wow, I wish I had known how bad Kimber's are before I bought and currently own 16 of them. Some Swartz and some not, all three sizes, Custom 5", Pro 4", Ultra 3", mostly .45acp, two are 9mm, some purchased new and some used. Unlike others never had a problem with any of them, none have needed warranty work or service. I've had good service from customer service when buying parts and other items. Yes, I shoot them, three I rotate as EDC pistols. Maybe I'm lucky, my experience has been very different from the horror stories I just read about.
I guess I just like guns, I have 4 Colts, 2 Dan Wesson's, 3 Wilson's, 1 Detonics.

I have an old group photo with I think 3 not pictured. I didn't post it cause I figured nobody would be interested in seeing it. It is kind of proof of my insanity so there's that...

 

View attachment 428069 Mmmm wow, I wish I had known how bad Kimber's are before I bought and currently own 16 of them. Some Swartz and some not, all three sizes, Custom 5", Pro 4", Ultra 3", mostly .45acp, two are 9mm, some purchased new and some used. Unlike others never had a problem with any of them, none have needed warranty work or service. I've had good service from customer service when buying parts and other items. Yes, I shoot them, three I rotate as EDC pistols. Maybe I'm lucky, my experience has been very different from the horror stories I just read about.
I guess I just like guns, I have 4 Colts, 2 Dan Wesson's, 3 Wilson's, 1 Detonics.

I have an old group photo with I think 3 not pictured. I didn't post it cause I figured nobody would be interested in seeing it. It is kind of proof of my insanity so there's that...

What is the highest round count you have through any one of those?

 

I bought a kimber last year to scratch the 10mm itch for a lot less coin than a semi-custom. I have no regrets.

 

Working a GS most of my life, we sold them because people asked for them.

I've owned on old one pre-shitz safety and it was an OK gun cause it had the beavertail GS and ambi's from the factory that was an unheard of concept back then. Then you bought a Colt and had some one work it over. Put the stuff you wanted on it.

Early 2000's they came to us with rust on the interior of the stainless models, K would never answer us why.

For a gunshop gun guru they work out great, for a guy that wants better I offer SA and Colt as a starting point and move forward/upward. There are better guns out there than K's so why spend the money on a gun cause it's on the back page of a magazine.

Honestly have never fixed many of them because most people don't shoot them that much.

Exception is the member above who has had good fortune with them, honestly I'm very glad for him and hope they continue to bless him.

But as for me no, no, not so much!

 

him.

My Delta Elite runs well, but rattles so loudly with loose parts that I can't carry it when deer hunting.

LMAO.