[KTS]

I think people forget that the there's still a thumb safety.

Thumb safety is disengaged the moment the pistol is out of the holster and leveled at the target. It should be a passive movement upon closing your grip around the pistol. Especially with a thumbs high and forward grip. The thumb should pin the safety down to minimize the possibility of accidental reengagement of the safety. (This can also cause issues with deactivation of the grip safety for those with smaller hands)

relying on the 1911s thumb safety to be engaged to prevent a discharge when dropped isn’t good practice because it is highly likely the pistol will not be on safe when dropped.

 

[KTS]

Hold on. Does that mean that while making the HD more drop safe (series 80), they also made it less drop safe (no grip safety)? If so, that’s hugely indicative of just chasing pop culture trends.

It’s a little bit nuanced I’d say. The light weight triggers, S80 systems, extra power firing pin return springs, and lightweight firing pins all work in part to minimize NDs caused by dropped firearms. However nothing is a free lunch.

too heavy a FP spring and too light of a FP along with a “light weight” mainspring and you’re at risk of not discharging that round. too light of tension on the center leaf of the sear spring and you could be at risk of even the light weight triggers having enough inertia to drop the hammer.

Not saying this is an absolute but it’s worth understanding when you start discussing “updating/changing” a 114 year old pistol. It’s up to the end user to take in all this information and make an informed decision on their own.

 

[BigBC24]

the picture is disproving your point. I have fairly large-ish hands and no issues getting my support hand on the grip and controlling recoil. The beaver tail is getting pressure from the web of my hand and can be aligned with my radius bone of my dominant hand. The grip safety is depressed by the thenar eminence of the dominant hand, and leaves plenty of realestate for the support hand to get grip surface.

if the dominant hand is rotated over so far that the grip safety is depressed by the web of the hand and the thenar eminence is over on the support side of the gun taking space from the supporting hand, that grip is rotated too far.

I agree that the dominant hand can be over rotated too far and I see that mostly with single stack 1911s. Sometimes, for some people, that over rotation is where they place their hand to depress the grip safety. That's highly anecdotal and without getting into a discussion about "what is good recoil control" and how you measure it (usually bill drills, which most of my police recruits have never done, or even some of them have never held a firearm) we are probably not going to be in agreement in general. I personally have a hand shape/size and high grip to where the grip safety is a problem for me. You might see my grip and say "that's not the proper way to grip a pistol!" and we will be on another topic entirely.

I want to be clear I do find them unnecessary given that the Staccato HD has a firing pin block.

 

[Buccaneer12]

I agree that the dominant hand can be over rotated too far and I see that mostly with single stack 1911s. Sometimes, for some people, that over rotation is where they place their hand to depress the grip safety. That's highly anecdotal and without getting into a discussion about "what is good recoil control" and how you measure it (usually bill drills, which most of my police recruits have never done, or even some of them have never held a firearm) we are probably not going to be in agreement in general. I personally have a hand shape/size and high grip to where the grip safety is a problem for me. You might see my grip and say "that's not the proper way to grip a pistol!" and we will be on another topic entirely.

I want to be clear I do find them unnecessary given that the Staccato HD has a firing pin block.

right, but that brings me back to this is a grip training issue not a hand anatomy issue. Im really trying to envision what you're saying and confess I cant.

there is no grip thats "too high" to deactivate a grip safety. I realize "i grip the gun so high that x...." is the current thing right now, but if the grip safety isnt depressed the only explanation is the web of the hand not being into the tang and/or theres no grip pressure on the front and back straps...which would again be a grip technique issue.

Sorry- Im not trying to make this personal or make it an argument, I just cant see what you mean is all.

 

[jetrinka]

right, but that brings me back to this is a grip training issue not a hand anatomy issue. Im really trying to envision what you're saying and confess I cant.

there is no grip thats "too high" to deactivate a grip safety. I realize "i grip the gun so high that x...." is the current thing right now, but if the grip safety isnt depressed the only explanation is the web of the hand not being into the tang and/or theres no grip pressure on the front and back straps...which would again be a grip technique issue.

Sorry- Im not trying to make this personal or make it an argument, I just cant see what you mean is all.

Agreed. The only time I've had issues depressing the grip safety was when I had just started to learn dryfire and realized that out of the holster I wasn't always depressing the grip safety. Turned out to be grip error - primarily from just not actually gripping the gun tight. Now with a proper application of force it hasn't been a problem.

 

[TangoHotel]

right, but that brings me back to this is a grip training issue not a hand anatomy issue. Im really trying to envision what you're saying and confess I cant.

there is no grip thats "too high" to deactivate a grip safety. I realize "i grip the gun so high that x...." is the current thing right now, but if the grip safety isnt depressed the only explanation is the web of the hand not being into the tang and/or theres no grip pressure on the front and back straps...which would again be a grip technique issue.

Sorry- Im not trying to make this personal or make it an argument, I just cant see what you mean is all.

My hands are small, and I grip the gun as high as I physically can, and I’ve never had a problem deactivating a grip safety unless I’m really only applying pressure at the very top of my grip. And that’s a me problem for sure.

 

[ShowMeQC]

the guy on the video shows the trigger pull and it looks light and same as before, I highly doubt Staccato would release this series and have crap triggers in them

go to 2:40

that eliminates any talk of the trigger being bad or the grip angle. period / end

 

[Vynz]

Thumb safety is disengaged the moment the pistol is out of the holster and leveled at the target. It should be a passive movement upon closing your grip around the pistol. Especially with a thumbs high and forward grip. The thumb should pin the safety down to minimize the possibility of accidental reengagement of the safety. (This can also cause issues with deactivation of the grip safety for those with smaller hands)

relying on the 1911s thumb safety to be engaged to prevent a discharge when dropped isn’t good practice because it is highly likely the pistol will not be on safe when dropped.

Dear sir, the HD has a firing pin block to prevent discharge when dropped - it does not like rely on the thumb safety being engaged for this to work.

 

[Tokay444]

Dear sir, the HD has a firing pin block to prevent discharge when dropped - it does not like rely on the thumb safety being engaged for this to work.

Right, but, if it's dropped beaver tail down, with the thumb safety off, from high enough, inertia will pull the trigger, defeat the firing pin safety, and with no grip safety, discharge the gun. What that height is will be determined by the mass of the trigger. I would have thought 6' was plenty drop safe enough for a muzzle down condition, but it seems guys here want to thrown their guns at the ground.

 

[JK981]

the guy on the video shows the trigger pull and it looks light and same as before, I highly doubt Staccato would release this series and have crap triggers in them

go to 2:40

that eliminates any talk of the trigger being bad or the grip angle. period / end

Oh my god it’s ambidextrous not “ambidextrious”

 

[catatonic]

Right, but, if it's dropped beaver tail down, with the thumb safety off, from high enough, inertia will pull the trigger, defeat the firing pin safety, and with no grip safety, discharge the gun. What that height is will be determined by the mass of the trigger. I would have thought 6' was plenty drop safe enough for a muzzle down condition, but it seems guys here want to thrown their guns at the ground.

Shows what you know, after drawing my pistol I use the following technique:

 

[ParrishGhost1971]

Removing the grip safety while making it drop safe is interesting because LEOs are much more likely to negligently engage the trigger than they are to drop the gun resulting in a discharge. As was the case with every actual P320 incident.

While I 100% agree with you. If you've paid attention to the chatter last year there were a lot of Guntubers talking about the platform not being drop safe. Throw in the rumors on forums over a friend's friend's friend hearing they didn't pass tests. This resulted in some authorities stopped using them, or stating they aren't approved, due to this.

 

[Bradd_D]

Oh my god it’s ambidextrous not “ambidextrious”

Yeah, that's a peeve of mine.

 

[Russdxt]

Doing $800 off for active duty LE is pretty intense. I’m guessing that will be an easy way for some folks to make $700.

 

[Tokarev]

Received today via email:

I’m excited to share Staccato’s newest release, the Staccato HD P4, with you.

The Staccato HD P4 is ideally sized for both duty and carry, maximizing accuracy, durability, and versatility.

Its full-size grip accepts Glock 17 magazines and offers ample space for every hand size. Its full-size grip accepts industry-standard 18-round magazines with enough room for all hand sizes.

The 4-inch barrel is short enough to conceal easily while still matching the performance of larger service pistols.

As the first model in our new HD line, the Staccato P4 is perfectly sized for both duty and concealed carry, incorporating all the latest innovation and design updates for the ultimate 2011®.

1911/2011 Grip Angle that Staccato owners know and love / Ambidextrous Slide Catch & Mag Release / Glock Pattern Magazines / Drop Safe.

We are offering 3 different packages to help you get exactly what you need & as one of our favorite Staccato family members I can help get your order entered before it goes on sale to the public on January 28th.

Base Package: Stainless Steel Bull Barrel, Aluminum Curved Trigger, Black front sight & 2 x 18rd mags $2,499

Preferred Package: DLC Bull Barrel, 3 magazines, Trijicon Hi-Vis yellow front sight $2,699

Premium Package: DLC Bull Barrel, X-Serrations, 4 x 18rd mags, Trijicon Hi-Vis Yellow front sight $2,999

The second model the P 4.5 will be released Spring 2025.

 

[Jnex95]

It's a shame that Staccato hyped up the release and doesn't have any guns to sell.

definitely agree with that. Pretty dumb

 

[Tokarev]

Stoeger says some stuff here. He had a video yesterday too.

 

[Vynz]

Right, but, if it's dropped beaver tail down, with the thumb safety off, from high enough, inertia will pull the trigger, defeat the firing pin safety, and with no grip safety, discharge the gun. What that height is will be determined by the mass of the trigger. I would have thought 6' was plenty drop safe enough for a muzzle down condition, but it seems guys here want to thrown their guns at the ground.

Oh I understand what you’re saying now.

 

[KTS]

Dear sir, the HD has a firing pin block to prevent discharge when dropped - it does not like rely on the thumb safety being engaged for this to work.

Yea right on manwas enumerating how the weapon should be handled when being used. (In order to ensure the weapons manually applied thumb safety is disengaged)

I do not mean to be crass but I am well aware how a passive firing pin block works.

I highlighted this to state that one should not rely on a thumb safety alone to keep the hammer from dropping if this pistol is dropped.

 

[TangoHotel]

Received today via email:

I’m excited to share Staccato’s newest release, the Staccato HD P4, with you.

The Staccato HD P4 is ideally sized for both duty and carry, maximizing accuracy, durability, and versatility.

Its full-size grip accepts Glock® 17 magazines and offers ample space for every hand size. Its full-size grip accepts industry-standard 18-round magazines with enough room for all hand sizes.
The 4-inch barrel is short enough to conceal easily while still matching the performance of larger service pistols.

As the first model in our new HD line, the Staccato P4 is perfectly sized for both duty and concealed carry, incorporating all the latest innovation and design updates for the ultimate 2011®.

1911/2011 Grip Angle that Staccato owners know and love / Ambidextrous Slide Catch & Mag Release / Glock Pattern Magazines / Drop Safe.

We are offering 3 different packages to help you get exactly what you need & as one of our favorite Staccato family members I can help get your order entered before it goes on sale to the public on January 28th.

Base Package: Stainless Steel Bull Barrel, Aluminum Curved Trigger, Black front sight & 2 x 18rd mags $2,499

Preferred Package: DLC Bull Barrel, 3 magazines, Trijicon Hi-Vis yellow front sight $2,699

Premium Package: DLC Bull Barrel, X-Serrations, 4 x 18rd mags, Trijicon Hi-Vis Yellow front sight $2,999

The second model the P 4.5 will be released Spring 2025.

So… no island front sight option despite the promo pictures? Kinda like how the new C was supposed to have an island front sight option and still doesn’t?